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Stamp: Ugh I'm sorry. by 8manderz8 Stamp: Ugh I'm sorry. by 8manderz8
Listen. Rape/Murder/Slavery ain't cool.

I am not saying that Christians think it's cool.
I am not saying that Christians think it's cool.
I am not saying that Christians think it's cool.

This stamp is saying that these things are written about and described with instructions inside the Bible.

This is a response I guess... to . Sorry. I just don't agree with what you said. No hard feelings, I just wanted to make a response.

I considered disabling comments, but decided against it because that's just not how I roll.

But... I'm not going to debate this point with anybody because it's all been said and done before.

Like here: and here:

So I likely won't be responding to comments, and that's just me being honest. Plus, it's really bloody hot in my house and that's making me kinda lazy. (Okay I kind of suck at not commenting.)

Also I know I said I'd be cutting down on the... well this sort of stuff. I'm trying, honestly! I am really hard on Christianity. It's just that one stamp jumped out at me from my inbox. :O


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:iconno15-nathax:
No15-Nathax Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
I'd like specific chapter and verses that condone rape, murder, and slavery.
Reply
:iconghostanjo:
ghostanjo Featured By Owner Oct 16, 2014  Student General Artist
this person explains it all well lipizzaner-kgirl.deviantart.co… *cough* *cough*

Also there is a huge difference between reading and studying.
Saying "I read the bible so I understand it" is like me reading a book on brain surgery and then saying "I read the instructions I can do a surgery" 
Reading is not equal to studying 
Studying also means understanding history in many things like law, language, culture etc. 
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:iconkitsumekat:
kitsumekat Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2014
The funny part is that if those things are evil, then why defend those passages?
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:iconcerbereth132:
cerbereth132 Featured By Owner May 20, 2014
The bible covers rape, murder, and slavery and gives instructions on how to deal with those things, because those are recurring elements in human society. It also gives instructions on how to deal with envy, lust, greed, gluttony etc. because those are also recurring human emotions. Nowhere does the bible say to rape, murder or enslave and actually says the opposite. Although the South did use bible passages to defend slavery it is important to note that the just as religious North used bible passages to defend their own position that slavery was wrong.  
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:iconyour-first-boyfriend:
your-first-boyfriend Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The Bible wasn't meant to be taken literally. Some people forget that unfortunately.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
That's a bit odd then - if it's not meant to be taken literally then why believe in it at all? If God did not literally say things like 'have no other gods before me,' or if Jesus did not really teach X Y or Z, die for everyone's 'sins' and come back from the dead and all that, then why take any of it seriously?
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:iconthevinesofivyandoak:
TheVinesOfIvyAndOak Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
If I may say something, the Bible IS translated from Hebrew and we all know what Japanese>English translation fails can be like... *Shrug* Just something to keep in mind; not trying to change your opinion.
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:iconyour-first-boyfriend:
your-first-boyfriend Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Most people see it as a guideline for life. Like how Jesus died for our sins, you should sacrifice things for people you love etc. But all this debate whether or not people should believe in a god is silly. And trying to prove the nonexistence of a divine deity with modern science is pretty arrogant. As well as damning anyone who refuses to acknowledge said divine deity.

To further on this long ramble, the Bible is interpreted differently by different people. The whole "don't take it too literally" is my interpretation. Some people may take the whole thing literally. It's all a matter of personal beliefs. Same with the church. Not everyone practices the church the same way, even if they belong in the same church.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I honestly don't know if there is or is not a god, and I have never met a single person who says they can prove that there is none. You can't prove a negative. As for me, I don't believe mostly because simply I just don't, or I can't. None of the arguments for it are convincing to me, and it just all doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure that's the way it is for most people like me.

As for the Bible being interpreted differently by different people... Does that mean that it's not really meant to be taken as the 'Word of God' then, if everyone can interpret it differently? Because if one person interprets it in a way that allows them to be a slave owner, and another person interprets it in a way that does not allow slavery, if it's all a matter of belief, who is to say who is right? If it's a matter of belief, which is God's message on slavery?
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:iconyour-first-boyfriend:
your-first-boyfriend Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Honestly, I believe there is some sort of divine deity. Whether or not it is the one spoken of in the Bible or any other religious texts will never be known. But I choose to manifest my beliefs of a god through Catholicism. (Which by the way, I prefer praying to the Virgin Mary than to Jesus Christ himself. I dunno, I feel more comfortable praying to her.)

Well. That's a tough question. I can't give you a straight answer for that one. Honestly though, people should also guide their lives with morals and ideals outside of their sacred texts. The Bible isn't the Dummy's Guide to Life. It's a way you should live. It's not good to have slaves. Morals pretty much tell you it's bad to enslave someone. I don't think a god would like it if you enslave one of his closest creations. I'm sorry I could only answer your question in one of the worst ways possible, but remember that all people have different values and ideals, so there is no complete union in everything. Especially in religion.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I always thought Catholicism was very interesting. It's very ritualistic, very pagan actually, especially in that people can pray to more than one supernatural entity. When I was Wiccan, I liked the idea of having a female deity to pray to, though I never could really get myself into it, if you know what I mean.

No need to apologize, haha. It's a much better answer than what I'm sure some of the people who've commented on my things before might say. This is going to come out really awkward, but from what you've said, I'd have to say you're my favorite type of Christian, haha - doesn't necessarily rely on the bible for answers to every single thing (like morality) or take it too literally. :)
Reply
:iconyour-first-boyfriend:
your-first-boyfriend Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Yeah. Although I'm no expert in my own religion, which is pretty sad. Usually, I pray to the Virgin Mary for protection and mental security, and to God for thanks. It's weird, I know.

Um, well thanks. I'm glad I could give you another way to look at Christians and our religion as a whole. We get a bad rep due to the crazies. And sadly, some people are ignorant enough to believe everyone is like that.
Reply
:iconsaziskylion:
SaziSkylion Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I read a lot of interesting stories in the Bible...
in fact it's where I learned the origin of the term 'get laid'

I do believe in the New Testament teachings
The rest of it is a bunch of EXTREMELY inflated metaphors
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Lol, is that where the term came from? That's actually pretty funny :XD:
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:iconmidsneypixels:
midsneypixels Featured By Owner Aug 3, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I AM SUCH AN IDIOT FOR GETTING CONDONE AND CONDEMN MIXED UP GAH
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Aug 3, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's easy to make that mistake lol I always have to do a double take with words that sound so similar like they do.
Reply
:iconmidsneypixels:
midsneypixels Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
and yeah, even thoguh I'm Jewish, I've read some parts of the Tanakh conncerning rape....and wow. they're like recipes for PTSD.
Reply
:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, I agree :/
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:iconmidsneypixels:
midsneypixels Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
XD
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:iconviolaurora:
Violaurora Featured By Owner May 27, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Ha.

Ha ha ha ha.

Wow!
Reply
:icongreatkingrat88:
Greatkingrat88 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012
I took a look at the stamp this is responding to, and... my god, apologists for this sort of thing are just weak. I have more respect for people who have to good sense to disavow the cruelties and focus on the new testament, which is slightly less evil.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Mm yeah, I find that most of the better Christians I talk to tend to look at the Bible a bit more objectively than others; most still believe in it, but try to focus more on the new testament as you mentioned, something to do with Jesus' laws or something, my mind's a blank at the moment, but someone might know what I mean lol.
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:icongreatkingrat88:
Greatkingrat88 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012
The usual argument is "when Jesus came, he fulfilled the laws of the old testament", which conveniently writes off all of the old testament (meaning they can't refer back to it without being obvious, blatant cherry pickers)... but they never ever seem to provide a satisfactory answer to the fact that Jesus explicitly says he's not there to change the old laws in the least.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hm... Interesting how that works eh? Do you by chance know where this particular part of the bible might be found? I'm still trying to work through reading the old testament at the moment.
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:icongreatkingrat88:
Greatkingrat88 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012
I think the quote is along the lines of "not an iota shall be lost". I got this off my brother, who knows the bible better than I do.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Ah thanks! I'll do some googlin' tonight, haha :D
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:icongreatkingrat88:
Greatkingrat88 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2012
You're welcome. I'm happy to help. :)
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:iconsakurawarrirorgirl:
SakuraWarrirorGirl Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
As a Christian I don't condone rape, murder or slavery AT ALL. I read the bible every now and then, but some people also re-read the bible wrong.
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:icontrafficeddie:
trafficeddie Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2012
I'm a christian and I don't belive Rape, Murder, or Slavery. Don't get me wrong I do read the Bible but I don't it's all 100% on most people preach about these days but I do believe what's written to teach as something.Besides like I said I don't in any enslavement , murder , or rape.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm sorry, I think you accidentally your whole comment there - I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :S
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:icontawana:
Tawana Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2012
The bible, if you actually read it, is a very cruel thing. Think about it
It does say to rape women if you sac their city
To merry your rapeist if you are raped.
It says thou shalt not kill BUT it says to kill non christans, gays, people who dissagrees and girls who have lost their verginity before being merried.
I don't recall where it says anything about slavery, but it would'nt shock me if it does.

This comeing from a person who holds the bible near and dear to her heart, I agree with this.
Reply
:iconelise-lucy:
Elise-Lucy Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
This is why I think, the Bible was written and edited by humans... :p
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's true :) All the work of people.
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:iconretrokittycat:
RetroKittycat Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012
Most of the bible is stupid like that.

You HAVE to pick and choose from the bible. If you don't want to get put in jail and a possible death sentence.
Reply
:icontsukikokyochi:
tsukikokyochi Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
This is what I say to people who insist on taking everything in the bible literally. I mean, it's not like it was written by god-it was written by men, so a lot of the things in there are reflections of society at that time.

People who say homosexuality is bad cause the bible says so are kid of stupid in this way. I mean, for pitied sake, the bible ALSO gives husbands the right to hit their wives! If I were a Christian, I would try and follow what JESUS did, rather than what some man in the old testament SAID was god's will.

Plus, Jesus says in the new testament that the rules people had in the old testament should not apply still now that the true son of god has come as a messenger. My dad's a heavy Christian and he tries to take every sentence of the bible literally, quite entirely forgetting that as it was written by "imperfect" beings we can hardly say it is completely unbiased. Really, it can almost double as a history book rather than purely a book of religious teachings.
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:iconxladytsukiyox:
xLadyTsukiyox Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Considering that this only happens in the OT which is written for Jews and that Christians are gentiles so that they shouldn't really be following the OT. They're goy.

What Christians follow is the New Testament or New Covenant. So really, no the Bible doesn't condone it. It shows it as a reference to what the the Jews did as laws, how Jesus fulfilled the prophecy, and why those laws (minus the 10 commandments which are summed up in the Law of Agape) don't really matter anymore..
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:iconwillow1981:
willow1981 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The link to the story this article [link] refers to is saying the same thing you are. :O
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:iconwillow1981:
willow1981 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I totally agree with you :D
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks! And thanks for the link, I'll take a look at the article today.
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:iconwillow1981:
willow1981 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
That was the link to stamp but the link is in there for the story :)
Reply
:iconstarlow-ftw:
Starlow-FTW Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012
It doesn't. The people who think it's actually condoned just look at it, make assumptions, and flee. "Rape" is never actually condoned in it. It's an assumption made by people. The people who were killed were killed because they were doing horrible things like child sacrifice and castration, and that behavior tends to spread. Slavery mentioned in the Bible is different than the slavery that we Americans tend to think of. Please tell me how many slaves in the deep South were freed by the seventh year and were told to be treated like family?

Yes, the Bible mentions this stuff because the Bible is a ton of history. You can't say it condones any of that considering:

1) there are commandments made by God explicitly forbidding them all.
2) judging the motives of a perfect God with a large-scale thought process is hard for humans that need a sign telling us that coffee is hot!
3) times are just plain different nowadays. This stuff was 3000 years ago.

Sorry for the unexpected comment, but it's something I thought everyone needed to hear. I think that if I can, I should try to weaken the assumptions people have made.
Reply
:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012
Marriage during those times was secured by bedding a woman (only men could initiate bedding, not women). Forced 'marriage' to an unwilling participant under threat of death is rape.

People doing horrible things do not excuse more horrible things, especially since the women and children were not involved and yet still killed several times. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Only males were freed after 7 years, and even that only Jewish males. Gentiles, women and children born in slavery were never released.

There is no commandment against forced sex of captured women. There is only encouragement.
There is no commandment against taking forced labor from captured cities. There is only encouragement.
There is no commandment against killing children in captured cities (though virgin girls could be taken). God actively kills children several times over, and even instructs in killing of children.

"God works in mysterious ways" is not a good reason to turn off one's brain when analyzing the potential moral significance contained within the bible.

God is timeless and was in direct control of the nomadic, warmongering Israelite government and military. He could have at any time told them to stand apart and do the righteous thing. He didn't. Instead, we have slavery, rape, and whole-scale mass murder. If it was wrong now, it was wrong then, too.
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's alright, it was a very well-written and cool-headed response and I do enjoy reading comments like this!

I understand that there's a bit of a difference between the enslavement of Africans in the US and the enslavement mentioned in the Bible - and I thought it was pretty interesting that the general rule was to free them by the 7th year, and that if a runaway slave runs to you you cannot return him/her to his/her owner and such. But despite that one nice bit, you gotta agree, it's still pretty messed up. Slavery is slavery, even if you return the slave to their normal lives after the 7th year. Those are 7 years of that person's life gone.

While there are commandments against this sort of thing, there is no denying that it happened anyway, and was notable enough to include it in the Bible, along with what basically were instructions on how to do this (Deuteronomy 20:10-14 "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.").

I thought ~i-stamp had a pretty good response before, in this comment.

Anyway, your comments are always appreciated, even if I don't necessarily agree :) Thanks for taking the time to leave one! :D
Reply
:iconstarlow-ftw:
Starlow-FTW Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012
True, and I'll admit that I could never enslave another person. However, one major reason slaves were held were because they owed a debt they couldn't pay. Instead of jailing them or killing them as most other cultures did, this was a way to pay back that debt. You'd work it off. Slaves of war were also kept. They probably weren't to be "treated like family" as I described before. I'll admit that. However, the enemies of Israel were typically bad in their own right, so I can't feel too sorry for them. *shrugs* That's a toughie.

Ah, that verse! You have a poor translation. The King James and New King James uses wording to sound like making the people inside your CITIZENS, not slaves. That's the result of a bad translation. I always tell people to use better translations, but you know, nobody ever listens. :P Anyways, It says to keep yourselves all the women, but does it actually say to rape? No. It could mean all sorts of stuff. It could mean keep them as servants, maids, cooks, wives, etc. There is also a law that is in there somewhere saying that if a woman who is captured in war does not want to be your wife, she is to shave her head and she can leave or something. I know she can leave, but it's been a while. It seems improbable that this verse you mentioned encourages rape. It's harsh, but it's not rape.

I-stamp brings this stuff up all the time. I'm familiar with all of it. ;)

Shucks, you're just saying that, but thank you for taking the time to reply.
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:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012
Like I said, only Jewish male slaves were released from debtor's servitude. Foreigner and conquered slaves, women and children born into slavery were not released.

Even if we were to assume the monumentally stupid assumption that every person within the cities killed by the Israelites was bad, two wrongs do not make a right. Doing bad things to people who do bad things does not change it into a good thing.

I love how Christians alternatively rant at the KJV and support it depending on the argument. Nor does this 'poor translation' stop Christians from using the NIV and other similar texts which say the 'poorly translated' statement. Sounds like an argument of convenience rather than an argument of direct Hebrew translation.

Considering the bible gave great instructions on how to bed/marry a captured woman, we can skip the conclusion that God just wanted to make captured women into maids and cooks.

And no, she couldn't leave of her own volition. She was to be shaved and have her nails pared and allowed to mourn her family before she is taken by whatever gent is lucky. He could decide to release her if he so choose, but she could not leave without his say-so.

"When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her(re: had sex with her).” Deuteronomy 21:10-14
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:icon8manderz8:
8manderz8 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Ah yeah, I do have problems with deciding which translation to use - they're all very similar but at the same time they can change the way things are interpreted, it's all very confusing to me I'll admit. And I will also admit that many of the verses are pretty vague on what the mean, but doesn't that just lead to more confusion for the people who are actually tasked with interpreting the meaning behind the words? I know I'm probably just opening up another can of worms here, but I mean, if it was important enough to be put into the Bible in the first place, then why keep it so vague? It was written by a bunch of guys, but there's some things throughout that book that just flat out contradict each other, and then to put on top of that the contradictions of different translations... Bleh, I don't mean offense but I don't get how anyone could follow something so.. everywhere. I guess. I hope that makes sense. It probably doesn't. Gosh, I'm rambling. Oh well!

And nah I'm not just saying that. I really do like hearing what other people have to say. :D
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:iconxxchantellexx:
XxchantellexX Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Follow your own advice. It doesn't approve of rape. It was a cultural law at the time.

At the time women were thought of as impure for having sex. So if a person had sex with a woman no one else would want to marry her. That is why the woman had to marry her rapist, but it says in another verse that people often miss that if the father (or family) can provide for the daughter that woman doesn't have to marry the rapist. It was a law AT THE TIME meant to secure the woman, and punish the rapist. Granted that is not how things work today, because we don't think like that anymore.
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:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012
A cultural law created by god, since the nomadic Israelite nation was receiving both military and government instruction by god, who could have told them not to do it at any time. But didn't.
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:iconxladytsukiyox:
xLadyTsukiyox Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Actually it was created by Moses not God. Thus why the majority of the OT is considered Mosiac Law by Jews. The only laws that came from God were the Ten Commandments.
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